Update: I had my meeting with the Congressman....

[JLN64]

Hey Everyone,

I haven't posted for awhile, but thought you might like an update on my adventure to have a meeting with our Congressman regarding the abuses being perpetrated on the NCP's by Family Court and the Support Enforcement Agencies. 

Briefly, I have been married to a NCP for 16 years.  He has made every payment and complied with every order by the court and still has not seen his kids since 1989.  He was able to contact them for the first time since 1994, when he found their myspace pages last summer.  His daughter is getting married this month; he's not invited.  In fact, she won't even respond to his emails.  His son in on active duty in the military and is willing to give him a chance to reestablish their relationship--which, I'm sure, is really pissing off the ex.  

Anyway, the dilema that we are currently dealing with has to do with a judgment for $31K+ that was entered against him based on the difference between the support ordered in the divorce decree and a subsequent URESA order that lowered support by $200 per month.  For 6 years, while he made every payment, the difference was accrued as an arrearage without his knowledge....

Without getting into a lot of detail, I spent hours researching and uncovered more than half a dozen blatant violations of the laws--UIFSA, URESA, FFCCSOA, 45 CFR, etc, that had been perpetrated in our case by the Courts and CSEA's.  I wrote up a brief and sent it to our Congressman detailing the issues at hand and citing both the specific sections of the legislation that had been violated as well as case law to support my arguments.

The Congressman was impressed and we met with him to discuss both our case and the problems within the system as a whole.  By the way, he completely agreed that the Federal Matching Incentive Funds were part of the problem....he's voting to repeal them. 

Yesterday, he met with the Director of DHHS, and initiated an investigation into the abuses I described to him.  When he receives the report, we will meet again.  I told him I would be happy to come to DC and testify before the House Ways and Means Committee and/or the Senate Finance Committee if it would help the legislators understand that the system is broken and is in dire need of reform and oversight.

It took me 8 months to get the initial meeting.  For anyone out there trying to do the same, just keep at them.  Keep emailing, calling, walk right into their local offices--whatever it takes to make them understand that you are not going away.  Threaten to take it to the media--it's an election year and neither side wants this story to get out....

My hope is to start a Congressional Investigation into the whole system.  I can't undo the evils that have occurred in my husband's case, but I can damn sure fight for reform so no one else has to go through this in the future. 

[smitisan]

Yay! A champion! I thank you, and someday I hope my kids will.

[x-olympian]

I think this is exactly the inspiration needed here and I for one am very inspired.  My experience was very similar in that I hade the order vacated and thee entire record expunge include direction in the order to CSE, in case they lost in or whateuver.

If you would be willing to share this information I would love to see your brief. I can be reached at EqualRights4men@yahoo.com

I hope everyone on this board reads this and learn something...This is a woman doing what we need to do collectively.

God bless you

If you need a signature just show me where  to sign.

[JLN64]

Thanks for the positive feedback. 

I want to make it perfectly clear that I am not an attorney.  All I am is a pissed off second wife who decided that enough was enough.  My husband followed all the directives of the court orders and still: was denied access to his children (by the ex and the CSEA), had his license suspended, insurance cancelled--then reinstated at a higher rate because it had been cancelled!, has had his credit trashed, been threatened with jail and seizure of our bank accounts.  He's been called a "liar" and a "deadbeat" by the workers at the CSEA and all over a "debt" that he didn't even know existed. His kids are in their 20's and he's still paying.  Truthfully, if this money was going into a trust for the kids, I wouldn't mind a bit.  But the ex is on her 3rd husband these funds are going to support the kids she had with husbands 2 and 3--not his kids. 

I am very proud of the fact that my step-son is on active duty.  His father and I are both veterans.  However, I am disappointed at "why" he enlisted.  He ran out of money for college and his vindictive mother wouldn't even pick up the phone to see if he dad could help him out.  We would have done everything in our power to raise the funds to help him finish school.

x-oly--since this is an ongoing matter, I'd prefer to keep my arguments off the net.  However, here's a redacted sample of how I set the brief up:

 [b]WV BCSE directly violated Mr. XXX’s right to due process and UIFSA Section 307 by failing to notify him that they were knowingly accruing arrears for a period of six years between 1994 and 2000[/b]

Extracted from UIFSA Section 307—Duties of the Support Enforcement Agency:

Subsection (c) imposes a duty on all support enforcement agencies to facilitate the UIFSA one-order world by actively searching for cases with multiple orders and obtaining a determination of the controlling order as expeditiously as possible.


WV BCSE never contested the registration of the Colorado Order and accepted the $400 payments from 1994 through 2000.  WV BCSE was in contact with Mr. XXX throughout this six year timeframe and yet never notified the him that while they were “counting down” the balance of the arrears connected with the Colorado Order, they were simultaneously running up an arrears based on the difference between the two orders. 

This case was already flagged due to the fact they were responsible, along with Colorado, for the accounting of payments received regarding the arrears being paid off based on the Colorado order.  They have no foundation for asserting an argument that they did not realize these “arrears” were on their books.

Through their actions, WV BCSE denied Mr. XXX the opportunity to correct this problem before it became a $30,000+ debt and denied him the opportunity to send the funds to his ex-wife while his children were still minors and the funds could be used to support them.

Oh, and we owned the arrears that were in the CO. Order.  He was unemployed for a bit and we sent what we could.  However, due to screwed up accounting methods, he actually overpaid by more than 2 grand....

At any rate, I decided that if we were going to be successful in this endeavor--we needed to use their own regulations against them.  I think if we can show the Legislators and even the State Attorney Generals that there are blatant violations of the law being perpetrated and that we aren't just trying to get out of supporting our children, we'll be much more apt to gain their attention and hopefully get them to enact some reforms and better oversight within the system.

As soon as I hear anything regarding the meeting with the director of DHHS, I'll pass it along.

[hadenough40]

HOORAY!!!!!

If you go to DC, let me know when.  I'd love to be a spectator if possible (and of course show support).

Congrats. 

I haven't heard a word from anyone.  Our senator office is literally across the street from my house.  I've walked over three times and he's not in.  Each time I brought a copy of my letter.

Your progress just spurred a new resolve.  I think I'll write a "spout off" for our local paper...published every week and the spout off section is the most popular.  My letter will be too long for that but I can certainly mention that the Senator doesn't seem to have time for the people that helped put him in office...hmmmmm.

Ohhh...sorry, I wasn't completely ignored, I did get some auto replies from the e-mails I sent.

[stepmom38]

Congratulations to you!!  I think there is going to be a waive of positive action coming our way...I can feel it.

I too am a second wife, and I had written a letter months ago to my local Assemblyman regarding the injustices of the entire child support system as a whole.  I attached an article by Stephen Baskerville entitled "From Welfare State to Police State" (it can be found on this website), who goes into great detail about exactly how this system came to be the mess that it is today.

I called his office several times to follow up and always got a response from an actual person, letting me know that he was reviewing what I sent and that someone would definitely get back to me.  Well guess what?  I got a phone call from his right-hand woman, who told me that within the last year or so, their office has received MANY letters regarding child support reform.  She said that my letter was particularly informative and that it shed a lot of light on a lot of issues that they were previously unaware of and that the Assemblyman believes that there are most definitely problems within the system that need to be addressed.  I live in NY and there is currently a "shared parenting" bill in the Assembly and I asked her if the Assemblyman was aware of it.  She said that not only was he aware of it, he was in the process of getting his name put on it as a co-sponsor!  She also informed me that they are in the process of putting together a task force to delve into the problems within the system, and that they would like me to gather all information I have (which is a lot!) and meet with them in the summer to help with the task force.

This is all SUCH great news!!  JLN64...like Hadenough said...if you go to DC, please let us know when as I would be more than happy to go and show my support as well.  Things are beginning to change everyone.  Perhaps not as quickly as we'd like, but we need to all keep at it full force.  I'm feeling very positive about the way things are going!! 

[JLN64]

Hey--Hadenough, Stepmom and all the other 2nd+ wives out there--looks like we should start the "Not the 1st Wives Club"!

I'm actually kind of stunned there haven't been more replies here, and I think it's validating Papa's post (something about the male anatomy or the lack there of--lol).

It's great that we, the current spouses of an NCP, have picked up our pens, put on our combat boots and jumped butt deep into the frey--but where are the responses from the men who are trying to affect these legislative changes?  I'd love to hear from them.

 

 

[hadenough40]

JLN...the same type of feeling has been nibbling at me since my last posting about the Fox reality show.  In a way it's turned me off to this site a little.

I understand alot of the men coming on this forum are in desparate situations that require IMMEDIATE action, so they are looking for advice and then leaving once they get that advice or find another site that will help more.

I made a statement about NCPs which primarily consist of MEN taking a quiet stand...no protesting on the street needed.  Instead these men that will be very poorly portrayed by the new Fox show should organize enough to get together a following willing to give up just ONE sunday afternoon of football.  Even my husband shuddered at the thought of giving up his precious football...for even 1 day.

Imagine if enough MEN refused to watch FOX on just ONE Sunday during football season.  It won't make an instant change, but it could get noticed and that's what's needed right now.

I have not watched Fox since I first blocked them from my televisions.  I love the show House, but I have stayed the course and will NOT watch...even in re-runs on USA.  I am only one person giving up the ONLY t.v. show that I ever watched during the week. 

Ultimately this is all to show support for a bunch of men that could care less.

If you want things to change MEN, you better start stepping up. 

[stepmom38]

Ladies, I think there are a couple of issues at work here.  Hadenough is right in saying that most of the guys that come to this board, are looking for immediate answers to immediate problems.  They ask their question, get some answers and then they leave. 

We seem to take a different approach to the problem.  Yes...getting my husband's CS modified downward a couple of years ago was an immediate step that we had to take, but I'm also looking at the bigger picture, as I'm sure you are too.  I consider that modification to be a temporary fix for a MUCH bigger problem.  Kind of like putting a band-aid on a gushing wound.  Sure...it'll help for a second, but in the long run it's not actually fixing the problem.  This is the exact reason why we need to attack this problem at it's source.  The laws need to be changed, period.  The incentives to battle it out in court need to be taken away.  Federal incentives for the states need to be taken away.  Both parents deserve equal rights to their children.  Case closed.

My husband is a very sweet and non-confrontational guy...one of the many reasons why I love him.  However, it's this attitude that got him where he is.  One day I was looking over his divorce papers and I noticed how basically EVERYTHING was slanted in her favor.  I said to him..."Why on earth would you agree to all of this crap?"  His answer was..."I was so devastated and in shock by what happened, that I just gave her what she wanted so I didn't have to fight."  I think this is the attitude of a lot of guys.  They know the cards are stacked against them from the beginning so they've almost lost the urge to fight before the fight even starts.

All I know is I'm not about to give up and I WON'T give up until this lousy system learns to treat both parents as equals.
 

[Brandy Fee]

Hey--Hadenough, Stepmom and all the other 2nd+ wives out there--looks like we should start the "Not the 1st Wives Club"!

I'm actually kind of stunned there haven't been more replies here, and I think it's validating Papa's post (something about the male anatomy or the lack there of--lol).

It's great that we, the current spouses of an NCP, have picked up our pens, put on our combat boots and jumped butt deep into the frey--but where are the responses from the men who are trying to affect these legislative changes?  I'd love to hear from them.

 

 

Well, it sure seems that way doesn't it?  Someone fill me in on what you are doing - as I am somewhat new to this - and I will pick up my pen as well!

Oh, and by the way, I am a third wife, stepmother, and also have dealt with the issues of injustice for NCPs with my husband...

So...

You are women to be proud of, and that I am, and I hope that eventually I will have something to say that I can be proud of!

[smitisan]

Another thing too is that when some wives become exs they get crazy, or so it seems. I'm sure some exhubbies do too. My first wife took the kids and moved off 900 miles away, but she kept in touch with me and treated me fairly and I think often went out of her way to take the kids by and make sure I got a chance to see them every now and then. I could live with that because I felt they were in good hands. I didn't have a problem with her getting CS or insurance, even though the insurance I had at work didn't cover the kids up there but the courts insisted on me paying for it anyway. These are the people running the country?
So I guess I expected the same from my second wife. Talk about shock and awe! She was hitting me up for money before the divorce, for one thing, telling me how bad things were and all, even pitching such a fit over me paying some of the bills by check instead of TRUSTING her with the money we had to go put the boxing gloves on. (She was a black belt.) I should have known. After she left, taking the boys 1500 miles away, in the process of cleaning the mess she left in our old house, we found a receipt, dated from the period immediately after the divorce, for enrollment at a weight loss center. $500. Just to get rid of a little pooch she had from her second pregnancy. She'd drop off the boys and the younger one would have green chunks in his bottle. The house was calf deep in unwashed clothesand dishes, dead bugs and catpoop. She reneged on every promise she'd made in the divorce decree, and when I told her, admittedly with some heat but not an uncalled for temperature, that I was going to hold her feet to the fire over one clause, she attacked me and then tried to charge me with assault, but all the court would give her was domestic harassment. She lied up one side and down the other to the judge and the domestic violence people. I felt that I really didn't have a choice but to take it, you know, that whole business about being a "man" and sucking it up.
Then she announced that she was moving to Colorado with her boyfriend, who had called me up one night after the alleged assault and left some real ugly voice mail messages about how things were going to be, "or I guess you know what's gonna happen," and so on and so on. (I saved them to CD.) Now, I believe in rehabilitation and that if you do your time in prison like he did for meth you oughta have a chance. But not with my kids, not 1500 miles away where I don't know what's going on. I filed an arrest warrant against him for harassment, but the police never managed to serve it. The funny thing about that was that the address they had for him was wrong. It was also the address I thought the boys were staying at, the address her mother had. See, ex never told me where she was living, but I thought I knew anyway so it didn't matter. So anyway, after the announcement of the move, I filed for change of custody, which required that she be served with papers. And, of course, they couldn't find her either. So they got away.
Since the move I haven't gotten so much as an e-mail about what's going on with the boys.
She thought she had the right to take the kids because she'd had a clause inserted into the decree that states: "Notwithstanding the Alabama Parent-Child Relationship Protection Act, both parents acknowledge that both their careers are in a state of flux, and that it may be both necessary and appropriate for one or both of them to relocate to another state. Both parents believe that such a move would be in the children's best interest, because it would improve the living standard of the children." Now my lawyer told me not to worry about the clause, because it would never stand up in court, and her lawyer told her he didn't think the divorce judge would allow it anyway. Do they actually read those decrees? Still, after reading about the Michael Shannon/Egyptian case, I got the decree out and realized that in fact the clause doesn't say anything giving her the right to move away with the boys! For one thing, the move had nothing to do with her career, online medical coding. She was only going there to be with her boyfriend. Furthermore, it simply states that either of us could move, but it doesn't say anything about what happens with the children. So I have some hope now, a precedent. But guess what? The police can't serve her in Colorado either! Now if even they can't find her, I think kidnapping charges may well be in order here. It may be time to fight dirty.               

[JLN64]

Brandy--welcome to the "club". 

If you search back thru the forum, on March 2, I posted "Points to consider when writing your Congressman."  Have a look at that one.  Basically, I just got fed up and the final straw was when the state we are now in issued an income withholding order for 4x the amount of the court order!  We got it straighted out, but the point is, the CSEA thought they could do that and get away with it.  When confronted, all they said was "oops."

Oops, my ass.  I started reseaching everything I could find on anything that had to do with Child Support Enforcement.  The more I read the madder I got.  Our case was apparently not an aberration, but the "norm".  That prompted a letter to the Congressman and started my whole ball rolling here.  The gist of the movement is that we need to get our state and federal legislators to acknowledge and understand that the Family Courts and CSEA's are out of control, the system is broken and whole mess is in dire need of reform and oversight.

Smitisan--not really sure what you post has to do with this topic.  All I can really say is that the time to fight was when the second ex "announced" she was moving with the boys not after it already occurred.  If the conditions your children were living in were as deplorable as you describe, why didn't you call social services or take pictures/document the mess and take her to court for transfer of custody?   Honestly, I think it's this complete lack of PROACTIVE behavior that making Hadenough and I so nuts.

As for kidnapping, well, you can't kidnap children you have custody of.....My husband hasn't seen his kids since '89--the ex moved several times and remarried twice.  Hell, most of the time he didn't even know what her current last name was until the paperwork showed up.  The courts didn't care.  So, good luck with all of that. 

[smitisan]

That's the point. I did start the fight as soon as she announced she was leaving, only I did everything by the book, exactly as the law stipulated, and she didn't. Maybe I'm not entirely on post here, but I guess I was responding to what stepmom38 wrote about guys trying to be nice and non-confrontational. And from what I've been reading, custodial kidnapping is a felony. 

[smitisan]

Oh, and I did take pictures. Had I known what was in the house earlier, I might have been able to do something then, but she always brought the boys to me and picked them up. Anytime I went over to the house, she'd start a fight out in the yard almost as soon as I got out of the car.
You might be right about the kidnapping thing; evidently the law applies only to cases in which the custodial parent takes the chid outside the US. Then the CP can be charged with felony kidnapping, based on a definition of the charge that includes interference with visitation or other parental rights. It seems a bit absurd, however, to suppose that the distance from Alabama to Colorado is any less an interference than that from America to Egypt, and I think if this were put to a jury they would agree. So there's one point in the law that seriously needs reworking, and that's what we're here for.
Hell, I don't watch football anyway.

[hadenough40]

You might be right about the kidnapping thing; evidently the law applies only to cases in which the custodial parent takes the chid outside the US. Then the CP can be charged with felony kidnapping, based on a definition of the charge that includes interference with visitation or other parental rights. It seems a bit absurd, however, to suppose that the distance from Alabama to Colorado is any less an interference than that from America to Egypt, and I think if this were put to a jury they would agree. So there's one point in the law that seriously needs reworking, and that's what we're here for.
 

Okay smit...I'm still cranky...a little less than last night, but cranky just the same. 

Right now it looks like you're dealing with an immediate issue and need help.  I understand that and you've got to get this cleared up first and foremost.  But...

I'm hoping that you'll answer this question honestly.  I may have comments about your answer but I'll try to be nice..

During or after your situation is cleared up do you intend to formally submit your concerns to the people that might be able to make a difference and tenaciously follow up until you are heard?

You may not watch football but I bet you have family and friends that do.  LOL  I'm not as cranky as I was last night, so I have to say that my idea may be silly and may not work for any number of reasons, but I'm not afraid to fall on my face, over and over, if it means possibly getting what I want.

Ohhhh and JLN...this might not be affective, but last night I asked my husband write to the very same people we wrote to before (I was the only one that signed the original letter).  He wrote up a very "manly" letter...lol.  Basically stating that his wife (me) has brought some real concerns to the senators attention.  The concerns are his (my husbands) and as such he is asking the Senator to stop avoiding the issue.  Basically said I have full power to discuss any of his issues with the Senator so there are no HIPPA concerns (one stop at the senators office I was told that they would not discuss the issues with me due to privacy laws?? HUH).  I'm resending this to all the people I originally sent it to and my husband's letter is being submitted to the "spout off" section I was talking about.