representing self, what should i say

[sirMAXX]

i love all of the support i get from here, i am very greatful.
i still have to email crystal so i dont have much time
on tuesday i had a case manager at CSE look into my case and was asked to call back on friday.  i called today and my CSE in my county confirmed the case is closed and is now going though the prosess of closing for the next 30 days.  the next thing is that i want records that the case is indeed closed.  i asked about the court date coming up on april 11th and told me i will not need to go to the court date.

i know i will still need advise here beacuse crystal and i will be setting this out of court.  she sent me several emails asking what happened and souded worried cause i havent been replying.  i still dont know what she will be asking.
so i should my own internet up early next week. talk to you then.

[greg]

Yes, you did it sirMAXX. This is the news you wanted. It is the best you could hope for at this point. Know that this does not necessarily end this.

You are right that you need a judge's orders and the written orders of that. the verbage of that judge's order is important. It needs to say that you are not going to be assessed child support.

There is a trick that they are playing. If Crystal went to court in a trial and convinced to judge to drop the case, you would be a winner of that case. Then, you could never be tried again. That is called double jeopardy. Since they dropped the cae, it could be reopened. That is why you need to really work togehter with  Crystal forever. If you get her upset, she could start this up.

So, as I have recommended, give her what she wants.

[hadenough40]

Good going! Congrats!

Okay, now on to working with Crystal.  You now need to shift focus slightly.  Crystal asked for medical records and a little reassurance that you were not just going to float in and out of Sara's life whenever you felt the urge.

You are working on the records and you need to keep Crystal updated on your progress and even lack of progress.  when it seems like your getting nowhere and possible Crytal is getting frustrated, ask for her help/opinion.  This does two things, 1) lets her know you are sincere and really trying but getting nowhere 2)she may actually be able to offer more clear cut direction on getting the info your looking for.

Are you thinking about what type of involvement/contact you want with Sara?  Are you making notes and coming up with your own plans for this?

If prepared for this next part of the negotiations, let Crystal know that you want to be a consistant part of Sara's life and that you would like to hear her suggestions about initiating contact and her ideas about future contact and interaction with Sara.

I'll assume that you'll be negotiating CS privately too.

Negotiations are a back and forth process.  You may offer something Crystal doesn't like.  Crystal may offer something you don't like.  Level heads and cool tempers are needed at all times.  I mentioned briefly before that you can't just say "no" to offers or just argue things you disagree with.  All responses must be diplomatic...that's important for all of you.  For visitation if you have you list of what you want and Crystal offers something you don't want...go to your list find the closest to what she offered then thank her for her offer and suggest your offer.  Same with CS.  Know what you need to survive and WHY.  When a CS figure is presented and you know you can't afford that, clearly explain why you can't afford that amount and offer the best you can.  CS will probably be the nastier negotiation, so you have to keep calm as best as possible.

Ohhh, and if you are given any agreements to sign IMMEDIATELY, Sometimes something is tentatively agreed to and the other party somehow whips legal docs out of thin air for signature...don't do it right then and there...instead...on the signature line write...Pending review.  Directly under that write...Agreement will be signed after complete review and comprehension by __________(your name).  The signed agreement will be forwarded or response will be made no later than _________ (a date one week into the future). Initial that part only.  Hand written is fine.

[sirMAXX]

i have tried to talk to her and i failed to negotiate here is her last email

Preston,

I have spoken with Child Support and they have
informed me that the case will remain open.

In your emails you clearly state that you are not
interested in being a father, that you are not
interested in providing financial support, and have no
desire to make the commitment required to be a parent.


As such, reaching a mutual agreement is not possible.
I have worked tirelessly with you and with Child
Support in both states on this matter.  Child support
is not alimony.  It is about providing financial help
with day-to-day expenses and medical costs for the
child. It really is time for you to stop playing the
role of professional victim.

Further, I am uncomfortable with statements you are
making in your emails.

I am notifying you clearly, and in writing, that you
are to immediately stop all communication to me.  Any
further attempts to make contact will be considered
intentional and willful harassment and that you are
purposely attempting to cause distress.

the last thing i said i said is that i truthfuly want to back out afer she asked for my decision because she gave me the options to terminate parental right and financial obligations.

my court date is on the 16th of april.  she last told CS to set the amount to $200 but now i dont knwo what she did now, i can find out until monday.

[greg]

Maxx;

Well you tried. It is time to stop, as she has demanded. Negotiation is tricky, and people can really tkae it the wrong way.

Well, now you are just back to where we left off when she seemed interested in working things out between you. It sounds to me that you have a fight on your hands now. There is nothing more that you can do about that.

As to the case being open, if they are assessing you child support, you need to determine what you are going to do ASAP or build up arrears. That is a disaster to fall behind. If you want to fight that, you will need to file those motions to dispute it.

I do not remember what all we covered, so you may need to refresh my memory.

Sorry it did not work out for you, but it was worth the try. I think we all felt that you had won already, but people are fickle. Try not to hlld it against her. Bitterness tends to show through and make the gap wider and less liekly to bridge ever. Maybe she will still come around. I once knew a girl, my ex, who was moody LOL.

[sirMAXX]

hey greg
well &&*% its too late i sent another email it said exactly

i understood your email, i would have sent an email to
wait in regaurds to my last email before you replied
when i got home from work at 1:45 saturday but my isp
was down till 2:30 today.

ok so now im working on an income and expense table. do you have excel?
i was going to do one sumery that would fit on one page then one detailed one of the same thing.

[hadenough40]

Okay...i missed a few chapters here.  Just to get this straight...SirMaxx, you decided to terminate parental rights?  Now she's not going to let you terminate parental rights?  Just asking because I'm confused. 

I'm so sorry things went so wrong, but greg is right, it's time to start putting together what you need for the next phase...whatever that may be.

Good luck to you.  If there's any help I can give just let me know, but I think you are in good hands with greg.

[greg]

sirMAXX;

Not to worry...

Yes, I will gladly help you with the recap tables.

Hadenough40, I am not sure what transpired in the interim either. I think he was trying to negotiate with her, but it blew up.

[sirMAXX]

hey before i do any thing i was thnking about sending another email, this time pleeing saying "crystal can we still talk, please. its about the email you sent saying you wanted my answer.  ive been talking with my family and they want sara thier lives too and want to help out."

[hadenough40]

Sir, the way I see it is she asked you not to contact her.  But she didn't give you any other way to get in touch with her either...via lawyer or representative...so I just don't know.

You might not want to post it here, but I'd definitely need more details before offering any advice.

It looks like she just cut you off completely with no chance at all to see Sara, but there might be alot I'm missing.

[greg]

sirMAXX;

I have repeatedly stressed that negotiation is very tricky. After 30 years of it, I guess I am amazed consistently how people will not stick to the point.

Right now, you are not negotiating an agreement on family law issues. You are negotiating the right to negotiate. She has slammed the door because she does not want to negotiate with you anymore. There is a reason for that, but we certanily do not know what it is here. She was looking for something that you tried to make her take the opposite. Maybe seh just wants to be unreasonable, but we did not see the negotiation to know.

If you do contact her, do not mention the child issues. You have not really known her, it seems to me. Now, you are trying to get to know her as a different person who has grown up a lot most likely.

Frankly, I fear that you will just dig yourself a deeper hole trying to negotiate with her by yourself. I would send one simple note saying that "you are sorry that you have failed. You are not skilled at this, but you do want to do the right thing." However, if your communications have indicated otherwise, that will just inflame her. Is your friend, I think she was a law officer, trying to help you out at all? Are we your only helpers? If so, you need more help. There is no way that we can walk through every single step, despite the record long thread. I know you have not asked us to, but that is also why things seem to get off kilter.

[sirMAXX]

this is not complete yet but you get the idea
the summery is the top page and then the detailed table is page two and i can add comments to refer to a certain apendix that relates to the information being shown and contains the actual records for review if needed.
each apendix will be reserved for a specific set of copies.  something like for my income and expense declaration i would refer to my pay stubs (apendix a) and bank statesments (apendix b).
i would tell the court i want to help Sara, i have medical insurance that can cover for Sara and i want to give as much as i can but my funds are extremely limitied.  i can ask the court to review my earning every year to see if there has been any increases in my earnings. 
when i attach a document talking about my earnings potential baised on employment hisotry and highest level of education completed.  i can show a list of my previous 31 employers in the past 10 years and give a brief description of why i have poor work history and how my earnings is limited.  i can refer to education (apendix c) or medical records (apendix d) ect...

what do you think?

[devgurl00]

i was reluctant to put my 2cents in earlier, but the CP sending those emails to sirMaxx... I'm sorry, she was fishing for info about sirMaxx's condition... she will use whatever info she received  against him in court. look out for it.

sir -- i wish you the best of luck. i think you have one wily CP to deal with here.

[greg]

sirMaxx;

Excellent work!!!

The one spreadsheet with just monthly income and expense is great. You will submit it as evidence. I doubt if we will use the detailed spreadsheet, but it is good for you to have nonetheless. You will take it in, but you may not submit it as evidence unless there is some dispute about your expenses. Ideally, you would even put the reciepts with that detailed spreadsheet and take it to court with you just in case. Yes, I am pretty careful when I go to court.

Now, you need to make your packet for the income. The packet will be the source documents for each month's figures on the spreadsheet. The documents are just what you used to create the spreadsheet, put in chronological order behind the spreadsheet.

You will need a copy of the packet for the court, mom and the child support enforcement officer. Of course, you will keep the originals. I always make myself a copy so that my originals stay in the secure location that only I can get to. Thus, I make four coppies. Two hole punch the top of the packet, number each page and bind them with 2" aluminum fasteners with compressors. You will place an evidence sticker on the first page given to you at court and you will mark your evidence. the first packet you use will be named 1, then 2 and so on.

Of course, the spreadsheet shows that you spend all you bring home, and there is really no substantial room for child support.

The other packet you want is the packet about your medical history. You need a packet that details the major reasons you are unable to be considered for high income employment. How is that coming?

It's been a while. what else were we planning to present as evidence?

[hadenough40]

I just got a chance to look over everything...Great job Sir!!!