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September 7, 2006
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Dr. Laura Debates Feminists on Men and Violence
Tuesday, September 05, 2006
By Wendy McElroy
In a recent radio broadcast and newspaper column, Dr. Laura Schlessinger addressed the ‘Take Back the Night’ movement that protests violence against women. She accused it of deliberately ignoring data that suggests men may be more vulnerable to violence than women.
In the Santa Barbara News-Press on Aug. 27, Schlessinger wrote, “This information should, but probably won’t, usher in a new approach to gender and violence.” The new approach would offer male victims as much attention and compassion as female ones.
Why won’t this happen? Schlessinger explained, because “the ideology, fomented by politically correct [PC] feminists, that women are an endangered class has been supported almost universally in our culture, government, and educational facilities.”
That PC ideology rests on the concept of women as victims and men as aggressors.
The backlash against Schlessinger was dramatic and instructive to others who consider questioning the dominant paradigm of victimhood.
Through a letter in another Santa Barbara periodical, The Independent, an array of community leaders collectively denounced her. The leaders represent feminist, gay and reproductive rights organizations, many of which are tax-funded and based upon the approach to gender and violence that Schlessinger decried.
The specific data to which they objected came from the first national Personal Safety Survey (PSS, 2005) released by the Australian Bureau of Statistics on Aug. 10.
The PSS is the first national survey by a ‘Western’ nation that uses the sex of a respondent to break down the degree and types of violence experienced by ordinary people. The population surveyed was massive and the results are publicly available without cost. In short, the PSS is the best snapshot we have of the dynamics of personal violence within a Western society.
The PSS is particularly important because some of its findings are surprising. Schlessinger touched on one of the surprises; although men are three times more likely than women to be the perpetrators of violence, they are twice as likely to become victims of physical violence or threats.
Eleven percent of men surveyed experienced personal violence compared to 5.8 percent of women.
(Schlessinger cited these statistics from an Aug. 22 FOX News column I wrote on the same subject, entitled “‘Take Back the Night’ for Men as Well.”)
Similar data on male victimization has been presented by men’s rights advocates for years now. Typically, however, PC feminists have dismissed such studies as biased and driven by an ‘anti-woman agenda’.
But it is difficult to dismiss the Australian government as ‘anti-woman’. Australia’s gender policies — on affirmative action, domestic violence, sexual harassment, etc. — are comparable to those of North America because it has been shaped by the same cultural influences.
Moreover, if the PSS has a gender bias, it is probably ‘pro-woman’.
For example, the survey used only women interviewers. Women respondents may have discussed their experiences more freely with their own sex but male respondents may have been inhibited.
Despite its significance, a remarkable silence has surrounded the PSS.
Silence from PC feminists is understandable; the survey challenges their ideology and policies. For example, the fact that one in 100 women reported being victimized by family (domestic) violence in the previous year is difficult to integrate with the claim that domestic violence is epidemic.
Silence in the media is less understandable until you consider the response to Schlessinger. Even prominent commentators risk their reputations when they speak out against the current approach to gender and violence.
Consider the letter of collective denunciation. It opens with a vague slap at Schlessinger’s “views” on unrelated issues such as gay rights and public education.
Then, the signatories state a claim. They had been giving Schlessinger the “benefit of the doubt” on her new column with the Santa Barbara News-Press “because we assumed you would undertake a rational discourse on issues relating to our community.”
Now, in a rival publication, they withdrew that doubt and invited the rest of the community to “add your name to the list [protesting Schlessinger] by posting a comment!”
The letter briefly cites a selection of data that supports the view of women as the victims of violence. These references, at least, are on point and could be the opening of valuable discussion.
Instead, they are used to close it.
Statistics have been improperly cited and debunked so often that scrutiny and skepticism are necessary when approaching data from either side of the gender divide. It is easy to criticize the letter for offering one-sided data. For example, it states that “1 in 4 girls is sexually abused before age 18″ without stating that the comparable statistic for boys is one in six.
But a more fundamental question is whether the statistics offered are correct. Their accuracy is presented as an unassailable conclusion but ‘the battle of the stats’ has been raging for over a decade now. Each side wields the latest Johns Hopkins study or cherry-picks findings from the most ‘favorable’ year of data offered by the Department of Justice; each position is proven and disproven over and over again.
For those who want facts without agendas, the PSS offers hope. The survey may have methodological flaws but it seems relatively unbiased.
Because it is based on an anonymous general survey and not on police reports, it reduces problems such as ‘unreported rapes’ driving down the statistics. It includes both sexes; it is massive and comprehensive; it doesn’t make policy recommendations. In short, the PSS could be the genesis of a much-needed and candid re-evaluation of gender and violence in society.
But, as Schlessinger noted, this won’t happen. At least, it won’t happen as long as those who publicize the data are dismissed, or defamed so that others will dismiss them.
The PSS should be debated. It should be debunked if grounds for doing so can be found. But it should not be buried, nor should those who raise it for discussion.
Wendy McElroy is the editor of ifeminists.com and a research fellow for The Independent Institute in Oakland, Calif. She is the author and editor of many books and articles, including the new book, “Liberty for Women: Freedom and Feminism in the 21st Century” (Ivan R. Dee/Independent Institute, 2002). She lives with her husband in Canada.
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I tend to be of the opinion that “family” is sacred, and the government cannot intrude. I believe true law supports this idea. “Violence” is not a crime either. The law already provides for (and always has) the “crimes” of Assault and Battery. To muddy the water with newly re-defined terms (ideologies) like “violence”, is absurd and uncivilzed. Inside a marriage, battery should be dealt with by family, with impunity. In other words, a brother, a father, or an uncle of a “battered woman” should have total immunity for “fixing the problem” with an abusive husband/father. And I think this “abused man” thing is purely the result of the intrusion of “government” illegally into the family. If a man is head of his household, and his wife attacks him, he can and should “put her in her place”, so to speak. Physically if needed, without fear of “goverment” involvement.
Where would this leave us? With families fixing their own problems, and exercising their sovereign and superior rights. But that would cut out the revenue stream for the “government”. Legislation cannot and will not fix the problem (if there really is a problem). A real Man would never abuse his wife. A father would never let some punk fool beat his daughter. The Law would never interfere with a father protecting his daughter. A woman should never have the ability to steal a man’s children, income, and property with a mere accusation. This is screwed up beyond comprehension.
Men truly have become wimps. Those 30-40 year old men out there haven’t yet realized THEY are the adults now. Still waiting on their stern and rough dad or granddad to step in and fix their issues, or tell them what to do. I would go in right now and take my children back, but I know the police have more firepower, and there isn’t a man within 200 miles that would back me up in exercising my RIGHT of recaption, or even lend assistance once I got arrested to test my rights. So I’m left playing paper wars for insanely long periods of time. “Domestic violence” is a fraud, pure propaganda, and has NO basis in law. Assault and battery are clearly defined legal terms, and have clearly defined elements to prove, in a clearly defined court proceeding. “Domestic violence” is purely discretionary, has no rules, is run by accusation alone, and the “judge” has incomprehensible peer pressure requireing him to find fault no matter what. I experienced this recently. My ex brought this DV against me as a ploy to enforce an unrelated “parenting plan” issue. Total abuse of process. Judge told her so in the hearing. But then proceeded to fish for something in the distant past to find fault with anyway. The fault? She accused me of banging a tennis racquet against my forehead 4 years ago. I object that there is no evidence, and that this doesn’t rise to the level of the DV definitions, and even if it was true, nobody was injured or threatened. Too bad. Guilty. Restraining order granted. “I find her credible, and she testified under oath that it happened.” Pure propaganda. And this in a “court room” that was guarded by two armed police men. No witnesses or bystanders allowed in the room. Closed court room nazi trial, here in amerika.
Stop arguing about who is more violent. Stop playing the game. The system is out of control. We are facing criminal prosecution in closed court rooms, with no evidence allowed, on charges of violating a propaganda code. The LAW forbids this whole issue from ever coming about. To raise the issue of “domestic violence” is to break the law, violate basic human rights, undermine the constitution, and commit treason against our country. The court is committing domestic violence, as this term is properly defined in the constitution. “Domestic violence” is properly defined in Law as government abusing We the People in our own country.
Word of caution: How to take over a country the communistic way:
1) Establish a national police force (i.e. Homeland Security)
2) Get the people to revolt against the government (i.e. family law and tax law)
I smell full scale revolt on the near horizon. And that is what they want. It’s hard not to get angry and violent in light of what is happening. But that will be the end of life as we knew it. “They” are NOT our government, but when we the people revolt, “they” will take over by force and become our government, and out goes the constitution and all our liberties. This corporation we know as “U.S. government” is a foreign owned corporation acting as de facto government here on our land, and is owned by the International Monetary Fund. When we revolt against them, they will take over and become the legitimate government, and we are all sunk. We all need to learn the Law, and hold these jokers accountable to true Law.
Anyway, I’m torn between ideas. I just found out my cousin in PA got beat sensless by three cops last week. He was passed-out drunk in his truck on the side of the road. Ok, that is a dumb thing I admit. But to have THREE cops beat you sensless?!? And they will claim “resisting arrest” as their excuse. How long until these thugs just start showing up at people’s home and kick in the door for some frivoulous excuse, just to harass us? Oh, sorry, that already happens. Are they intentionally provoking us to insight a revolt. I think so.. Do I want real bad to bring it to them? I think so. What a mess. And the media insights debates about oil and “war” and men vs women and conservative vs liberal… all these distractions while they walk off with our freedom and our country right under our nose.
As a man, in a custody battle right now for my two young children, I know all too well what is going on here. While I may have the ability to be as strong, or as loud as any other man… or woman, I choose not to for the sake of my children. I know that all it would take is one little mistake for everyone to say “see, see how he is – he’s a bad man”. I haven’t given anyone that satisfation.
There are a couple of things not being mentioned here. First off, I know first hand that my ‘hopefully soon to be ex-wife’ takes advantage of the fact that the legal system is going to believe her over me. With that knowledge she feels invincible. She creates unnecessary violent, loud and disruptive situations in public, that are unhealthy for the children. She has made and continues to make false police reports with no penalty to her. The police know she’s crazy, but they do nothing to her. Luckily in my case the entire Sheriffs office is on my side, yet they won’t arrest her for her behavior, threats, or filing false reports. People, neighbors even the guardian ad litem and councelors don’t want to get involved – even if it means to protect the children from a mad woman. Nobody cares about what the Best Interest of the Children are! To the courts, property matter’s and other less important issues take precedence over the children.
As a father and a husband, I suspected my wife had Mental Health Issues. I tried discussing it with family doctors even before the divorce. I feel while my wife was sometimes difficult before the marriage, it wasn’t until after she became pregnant with our first child that her odd mental behavior became out of control. Deep inside she knows it too and she is miserable. Afraid to call it what it is, she refuses to get help and blames me and anything that disagrees with her. As a good father and a good husband, I tried everything I could do to keep my family together and safe, all the while she tried tearing us apart and trying to gain allies with every womans shelter, female friends and her family in an attempt to make me look as if I was the bad guy. Hard to believe just how many stupid people are out there who will just believe anything a woman says just because she says it. They all really helped enpower her. She has the attitude that everyone is going to believe her and not me… just because she’s the woman.
Hard to believe, but so far she is right.
When I finally had no choice but declair her as bipolar, the divorce had already started. Now no-one wants to believe me despite all the evidence.
They’ve all turned a blind eye, even to my poor children who are crying and begging for help to everyone they see. Even my six year old on his own recognizes the behaviors of his mother as being dangerous, mean, hateful, abusive, unhealthy and untrue. No one listens because he’s only six. The kid is living a hell, and noone will help. Furthermore, since he has virtually no confidentiality with the concelors or the guardian ad litem, he only finds himself in more hot water, more abused and neglected by his mother because they run back and tell her what he’s saying about her. His younger sister who is 4 almost 5 is learning that she better not say anything about mommy to anybody because her brother gets in trouble when he tells the truth. Their mother is screwing them all up and these kids are not stupid. They see what’s happening and that noone is helping. I fear for my children am I am looked at as weak. When I was living with her and she was physically abusive, do you think I was going to call the police saying my wife is beating me up? What man would? What the statistics show is that woman are more likely to place a call to police then men are… even if it was the woman creating the abusive situation to begin with. My wife would fight endlessly then call the police on me when it should have been me calling them. It’s an abuse of the system, it’s widespread, it’s not just happening to me but to many others. Mental Illness is sometimes a factor and the courts are ingnorant to mental illnesses so the kids suffer. If you believe Mental Illness is a factor, join NAMI and educate your self. You can find a NAMI chapter locally, go to meetings, take classes and put a name to that crazy behavior the courts and everyone are allowing to ruin your family. Mental Illness is so much more widespread than people are even aware, it can be treated in some cases, and save families from the ugliness it turns into. Google NAMI to learn more or contact me if maybe somehow we can help each other at: waterfront@LNF.com
Please excuse my spelling, it’s too late and I need to go home… alone.
Signed…. a really great Dad to some suffering kids.
I feel so sorry for this man. I know exactly what he is talking about. My ex was and is the same way. One time she left my (at the time) six year old son home alone. My son called me on my answering machine when he woke up and said that mommy was not home. Come pick him up. I was not home, BUT, it was recorded on my answering machine. So I could not be making this up.
To make a long story short, when I got to court, the lawyer for my son, (he had to be represented by “something”) stonewalled and lied when he said my allegation was “ambiguous”. He heard the tape, but his comment after hearing it was, “what are you trying to prove by this? The judge won’t do anything. Just pay your child support”. Furthermore, my ex, in front of her lawyer, my son’s lawyer and myself ADMITTED she did it.
Was anything done to her. Nope. Can you imagine if a man did that? I would have been arrrested and jailed. This is an evil system.
All of this NCP movement crap is a waste of time and emotion.Thus far, posting on this blog is futile. Call me when you start handing out pitchforks and tourches; I’ll bring the tar and feathers. Later gang.
Sure, let’s debate which gender experiences the most violence while the entire nation is rapidly circling the drain. Wendy McElroy makes about as much sense as the feminist agenda she subscribes to. Calling her version of feminism by a slightly different name does nothing to lend any credibility to her twisted philosophy. Feminism, by its very definition, promotes the agenda of women. It does not promote the rights of any other group of people, just women.
Maybe when they recognize the rights of “unborn children†we should listen to what they have to say. Why should anyone listen to people that promote the widespread slaughter of innocent children. She likes to use statistics, is she aware that 70% percent of Americans now believe that abortion should be illegal? Are 70% of the American People extremists for wanting to end the wholesale murder of innocent children?
Innocent children should not be buried, nor should those who fight to save their lives.
Kevin Merck
Kevin,
Thanks for lending light and perspective.
Walt