Many fathers groups demeaning to women — Page 1 — TimesUnion.com
May 12, 2006
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Posted by ANCPR
Note from ANCPR: Here is an example of mainstream victim centered psychology (normally feminist driven) and its approach to shared parenting. The writer of this opinion piece is a professor of Psychology at Siena College in New York. To check out her web page, GO HERE http://www.siena.edu/hannah/
Contact information for Siena College Psychology department: Psychology Department (518)786-5065 Siena College 515 Loudon Road, Loudonville, New York 12211-1462
College Switchboard
(518) 783-2300
FAX: (518) 783-4293
Many fathers’ groups demeaning to women — Page 1 — TimesUnion.com
First published: Friday, May 12, 2006
Gordon Finley’s April 30 letter, in which he characterizes New York State National Organization for Women President Marcia Pappas as disseminating “gender supremacist disinformation,” aptly demonstrates why groups like NOW, the New York State Coalition Against Domestic Violence, Stop Family Violence and the Battered Mothers Custody Conference were steadfastly opposed to the “shared parenting” bill rejected by the Legislature.Aside from the logical and statistical flaws contained in his argument, Mr. Finley’s conclusion — that because children are most likely to be killed by their mother, they require the joint custodial oversight of their biological father — reflects the denigrating opinion of women that is held by many fathers’ rights proponents.
As reported April 21 by the Times Union, this same demeaning stance reared its ugly head in the form of harassment inflicted on some women who opposed this bill, including Ms. Pappas and myself, as well as in the coercive or downright threatening communications sent to legislators by some of the bill’s proponents.
Imagine being forced to make all of the decisions about your child’s education, medical and mental health care, leisure activities and other central aspects of his or her upbringing in tandem with a biological father who resorts to threats, demands and stalking to get his way.
The resulting picture depicts the reasons why this bill, along with the notion of mandated joint custody, is a bad idea. Mothers cannot raise healthy children while they are being forced to parent with a man who demeans and disrespects her as a woman and as a mother.
MO THERESE HANNAH, Ph.D.
Chairwoman
Battered Mothers Custody Conference
Latham
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Is this demagogue for real? A Ph.D in what? Radical Feminist Studies? I will call her and rephrase her assumptions with a gender reversal. Sad as these man hating activists are the enemy and need to be fully exposed for there efforts and agendas. They have nothing to do with children and have everything to do with Lesbian/Feminist propaganda.
Then look at this:
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/culture/articles/040920/20test_2.htm
Mo Therese Hannah was also forced to take the MMPI 2 as part of her court-ordered custody evaluation. Hannah, a psychology professor at Siena College in Loudonville, N.Y., knew the exact mechanics of the MMPI 2–she’d even taught classes about the test. She also knew that she was under a great deal of emotional stress from the trauma of the custody battle–stress that might make her appear an unstable mother.
“I did try to take the test honestly,” said Hannah, who was eventually awarded custody of her four children.
That’s funny, if a father would have taken the SAME test and be under the SAME stress would he have received custody? I doubt it. The stress that she was under is the EXACT stress they put fathers under BUT, use the results against him as being unstable, therefore, he gets the minimum visitation.
http://www.timesunion.com/forms/contactus.asp
Here’s their contact if you’d like to send a nice love letter.
In an intelligent free society, a person has a right to disagree with or debate policies and procedures with another person. The fact that one person happens to be a man and the other a woman should not have a thing to do with it. But as I always knew, the feminists even label men’s disagreement and debate of their views as “abuse.” They have become like Pavlov’s dog, they hear “man” and their immediate response is “domestic abuse.” It must be nice to have a “universal crutch” to apply to any situation.
John Alvarez
j5alvr@aol.com
I wrote and left my opinion be known thanks Jim; Didn’t I hear on this web site that the women were ready to get violent if that bill passed in New York; the shared custody bill?
They are right though; I’ll demean harass and lay the pipe to Satan himself if they want to mess with my children. Any real man should.
Gerardo
Mycahsdad@aol.com
I sent a letter to the editor. I hope they publish it. She is spilling a bunch of crap. If one man send something nasty to her, does that mean all mean are evil, abusers, wife beaters? As I said in my letter to the editor, if we are all the things that women’s groups say about divorced fathers, why are there women willing to marry us after divorce?! Is wife # 2 not seeing something; or is wife # 1 just laying on a bunch of garbarge to throw us out and get the most money she can get her lousy hands on?
I pick the latter.
I also said that fathers rights groups are using the same legal, lawful means of petitioning our elected officials. If NOW doesn’t like it they can take a long walk off a short plank.
Finally, I pointed out that the major difference between Father’s Rights groups and women’s groups is that we are looking for equality in raising our child(ren). We are not looking to eliminate the mother. NOW and other women’s groups seek to eliminate fathers as much as legally possible by spreading lies.
It is unfortunate that the NYS Bill A330 effectively died when the Children and Family Committee voted 8 out of 12 to keep it from the floor. Despite having over one-third of the NYS Assembly in agreement to pass this crucial piece of legislation, the Committee caved in to the pressure of these woman’s groups, as well as some long-standing Family Court officials. Even though Bill A330 contained provisions to permit joint-custody only after conforming to specific guidelines, these 8 individuals decided they knew more about the demands of society than the thousands of individuals who wrote, emailed and contacted the Committee this past Spring urging the bill’s passing.
It is also unfortunate that these groups call the non-custodial parent (usually the father) extremists, abusive, demeaning, etc. because they are trying to assert their God given right. These same groups conveniently fail to recognize the volumes of evidence that point to joint-custody and equal parenting time as being in the best interest of the child.
They also fail to recognize that in our society, change only comes after social upheaval. The Father’s Rights movement is gaining momentum. This energy needs to be channeled into effective, focused action. Vote these committee members out of office, write your local paper with your opinion.
Siena College, particularily the Dean of Faculty, should be the recipient of of several letters written by non-custodial fathers voicing their displeasure with the Professor’s comments and the promise to send their child elsewhere.
Ph.D.,??? JOKE! What about BATTERED FATHERS???!!!
That’s one of those, “actually stupid people who have nothing else to do in their lives except to ruins others,”who hang a shingle out and call themselves a “Ph.D.”…
“WOW!!! I’m impressed! What is written is not impressive.
Ph.D. means NOTHING if it’s not for co-parenting.
The “Ph.D.” that the court allowed to “help” my 7 year old son (whose “Mother” the court gave full custody too) (after she already moved and hid “Our” Son for the required 6 months in calif. coming from Hawaii where the child was born and played with Daddy) and (the Court/being the “custom”) allowed her to move with “Our Child” 3000 miles away to stay for good in Calif.
This was a mystery to me at the time…
I now know what a set-up it is!!! It’s the NORM!!!
I created great expense to myself and my wife in the last two years to hire an attorney and find my son. Which I did…
…a year and a half later… with “our” son now calling me by my first name instead of daddy as it had been for over 5 years…thanks “mom”:(
he’s 8 now and I still don’t get to see him because now I’m broke from attorney fees, Ph. D. fees, travel expenses (what kind of a “visit, (as it is called”), is healthy when Dad is staying at a Hotel?), and more fees on fees just to see my natural son and play with him. I could ramble for days… so …I won’t…
As “She”(the ph.d.) told me —in my situation—…”THE RULES”…
“SHE” (ph.d.) could not tell me anything about the “therapy” ordered by the “COURT” for my son since he’s been “told by mommy” that daddy “abandoned him”…, so I couldn’t “Know” what my son is feeling and thinking…
what kind of “therapy” is this?
The Ph.D. couldn’t ease the child into the understanding that this was all a lie…
(many more lies I won’t go into here and bore you with the usual…)
AND…the “Ph.D.” “Could not give any opinion or writing for the COURT”?
What the Hell do you do as a “Ph.D.”? (Ididn’t say it to her that way)
As it is, these types of situations end up having you, (the father), being the mean and terrible person who will eat your children…OHHHHHHHHH!!! Just by bringing it up. DUH!!!
What are you supposed to do when your child acts like a robbot?
Does any of that make any sense? Of course it doesn’t, but once the “Court” was “out of the loop”, Mom saw to it that the counseling was less, and less…then stopped! All planned!
The court did nothing!
It’s all part of the pimp money game done under the “best interest of the child” Bull!
The “Ph.D.” had to know what was going on (It’s her pay-check)…she’s part of the systems circle of courts, mediators, attorneys etc. who refer you to “Ph.D’s.”, the “evaluators”…and it never stops until you go broke.
You still don’t get to share life of any importance with your child, in fact, the SYSTEM lessens your time as a father with your child and makes you pay more for it if you complain! Hell, you pay even if you don’t complain except maybe not as much for the moment since you don’t get to see your child…
Can’t forget the court ordered parenting classes (for both “parents”/mine(Dad”s) was 16 hours, moms was 2 hours/go figure/ I have committed no crime or engaged in any type of abuse in case you’re wondering …
By the way…the parenting class I took was good. It really showed me how screwed up my little boy is and how crazy-angry his mom is. What good I got out of it does not get me any time with my son…
The parenting facillitators are very dumb about how family court “REALLY” doesn’t work.
But what can you expect, it’s their paycheck!
I’ve been wondering for a long time myself why the law says one thing yet the court practices their own law…Ummmmmmm!!!…
and which never gets me any closer to my son 3000 miles away…
I haven’t had any REAL contact with my son (who is lied to by mom and their Iranian family (I’m white/and this is not to be racist), but you know how it is going with Iran now. Well it’s the same for me here. They do not EVER mean what they say, they only stall for years. Then do whatever they want.
The strange NOW women who say this crap about men seem (for the moment) too be getting away with it. The whole lot of them are very sick women. I read their stuff. It is so out there…
Then these very same SICK women spin it around and accuse men of being that which they are.
There are very great women in this world. My current wife, (now married to her with a little daughter on the way for longer than my sons current emotional child abuser mom and I were), is the best.
My wife is a great woman and soon to be a mother. My son will have a little sister he’ll probably never be allowed to see.
My Wife cannot understand why some women would do such a thing to a Child.
Don’t forget men…
we are considered “Evil” to any idea of fit fathers being “co-parents.
The “stupid girl” as Mick Jagger would say.
(Oh Mick…you’re such a monster…)
If the women would only use their brains and not their whoremones for only wanting money and pain for their ex…
the children would get not only more money in some cases but more important time with their fathers to balance out their lives.
It would also give these mouthy women some time for themselves to date their girlfriends or boyfriends whatever their taste. (You Know…”time out”)And then bitch to them or at least get them “relieved” (and I don’t mean go to the bathroom).
It certainly sounds like most haven’t got off for a very long time.
Randy
Here is what I wrote to the Times Union:
I want to respond to Ms. Mo Therese Hannah, PhD, Associate Professor of Pstchology, Siena College, opinion comment of May 12, 2006 that many fathers rights groups are demeaning to women.
Ms. Hannah’s opinion that a father is bent on making a mothers’ life miserable is trite and immaterial to the basis of shared parenting. A childs’ right to equal access to each and both parents should be paramount. We have had it the other way where one parent becomes the visitor and the focus becomes money and its collection. Just look at the trial of destruction and desolation of our nations’ children and the enormous subsequent cost to the taxpayer for social programs to attempt to help these damaged children, as adults, cope with thier lives.
Shared parenting works when those like Ms. Hannah, having made negative allegations about the other parent in a divorce are required to prove it.
Ms. Hannahs’ judgement of fathers rights groups is simply not true. Most fathers rights groups are not concerned with gender, per se except where gender is brought out. Interesting how mothers who are child abusers and killers seldom suffer equal punishments. The rampant destruction of parents and thier children today is not so much about gender as it is about state intrusion into the life of a child and setting up that child to become a commodity of the state. Other horrendous abuses of those children become the subsequent results of state facilitation to a skewed field where the custodial parent holds all the cards and does not have to account for abuse of the child by demeaning the other parent to the childs’ thinking and understanding and other abuses.
I sent the following to the TimesUnion editor:
I am not part of your usual readership, as I do not reside in your state. I read your father’s rights group story on the national http://www.ancpr.com website. But, I felt I had to comment on the story because of the misrepresentation of men by the “doctor” who wrote the story. Men have a desire and instinct to parent their children just as mothers do. To use male on female abuse as the the reason to remove fathers rights to be with their children because some men have abused their spouses, would be like removing mothers rights to be with their children because some mothers have killed their children (Andrea Yates etc). To remove the rights of men and fathers simply because some in their ranks are guilty of a crime is as great a wrong as the wrong of domestic abuse collectively being held against them. Fathers can and do love their children as much as mothers do. When mothers and the feminists and women’s groups who back them, use the children as barter to exact emotional, mental, or even financial revenge, it is the children that are hurt. Because children need their fathers just as much as they need their mothers, no matter whether all the “Phd’s” in the world deny it. The following is a paper I wrote after having come home from a family court hearing in which my daughter was taken from me once again:
The Conceived Hostage
My little girl is being held hostage. I must comply with every demand of her abductor. I must pay any amount of money that’s demanded of me down to my last nickel. I must surrender all of my property down to the last stick of furniture. I must account for- where I live, where I work, what I’m paid, what I buy, where I buy it; for all intents and purposes, I must account to the abductor for every move I make. I must do things and allow things to be done to me that, if my love for my little girl was not being used to manipulate me, my self-respect and dignity as a man would not allow me to stand for. So, who is the person that is holding my little girl hostage? My little girl’s mother. And, who is the accomplice that has given her the power to commit this violent act? The domestic relations system in America.
What’s it like to have someone that you love more than life itself used to extort you? Imagine the most beautiful, innocent miracle that God ever gave you being used as a pawn to destroy you. But, despite this, imagine also thanking God that she is gratefully and, mercifully unaware of this. All she knows is the love her daddy has for her. And, even though you know this love will be what’s used to draw you to your destruction, your helpless to stop it because, she is your heart. Imagine living in constant fear. Fear that the next letter in the mail or, the next phone call or, the next family court hearing will bear the news that, without proof or, witnesses or, due process, they’ve once again believed the abductor’s lies and, they’ve decided to do what’s “best for the child†and, not let you see her anymore. Imagine spending every waking moment worrying if your child is okay because, even though you know she doesn’t intend direct harm to her, her blind desire for vengeance against you is more important to the abductor than anything, even your child‘s well-being or safety. Imagine constantly being tortured by your child’s laugh or the way she squints her eyes when she didn’t understand what you said. These are the true riches of life but, not when they repeat over and over again in your dreams at night and, the dream always ends as a nightmare when your child is taken away from you forever. Imagine the demoralization you feel when, despite the proof you have showing your side to be true, the abductor has won the thousandth custody hearing or, you’ve spent another week in jail or, you’ve been driven to bankruptcy because you’ve spent your last cent fighting a male-biased, corrupt system where the outcome was predetermined from the beginning; while, at the same time, she has had a free lawyer and every assistance free from day one. But, worst of all, imagine the loathing you feel for yourself because, after years of the inhuman battering you’ve taken from this corrupt, nightmarish system, you‘ve grown weary and, the thought of giving up begins to cross your mind. You beat yourself up because, as much as you love your child, you can’t believe you would even think of this. Protecting one’s children is the most powerful instinct a parent has but, self-preservation is also the strongest instinct a human being has. Imagine what it’s like to be placed in the position to where you must literally struggle between these two choices daily- they take your house but, you fight, they take your car but, you fight, they take your life savings but, you fight, they take every piece of property you own but, you fight, they take your livelihood because, when you didn’t show up to work because you were sitting in jail on false charges, you got fired but, you fight. They take everything but, you keep fighting because you can‘t allow them to take what‘s most precious to you- your child. But, in the back of your mind you know that if you continue resisting this injustice, they’ll eventually take the final toll- your freedom or your life. Why? Because you’ll eventually come to the point where you won’t be able to stand the tyranny of this corrupt, biased system any longer and you’ll do something desperate or, they’ll eventually make one of the false charges stick by matter of simple inundation. And then, they’ll put you in prison or the graveyard (same difference to me). And, when this does happen, they’ll attribute it to your mental instability or, to your being a bad man or, to your being violent. It will never cross their minds that the responsibility for this reaction rests not on you but, on them, by virtue of a corrupt, mercilessly tyrannical system that backs a man into a corner until he’s left with no option but to give up or, come out swinging. I don’t think my feelings, thoughts or, reactions to this situation are any different than any man who loves his child would be. I think any man who’s gone through what I’ve gone through for the last four years would feel exactly the same way. No, the real bad and wrong in this is, in a system that would condone this suffering and, in officials that would allow it to continue despite the blatant evidence of injustice staring them in the face. In life, a man might be put into many situations where he must choose between his own life or his child’s and, in my case, if it did come down to that final decision, I know what my choice would be. But, for a man to be forced into this position where he must be tormented daily by this heavy burden not because he was dealt that hand by fate or, destiny or, divine choice but, by a corrupt system that made this choice based only on callousness, bias, and lies, is literally, the very same cruelty and violence this system claims to be protecting women from. But, then again, for many of the “unbiased†officials (whose gender shall remain nameless) who comprise this “fair†domestic relations system in America, that’s the ultimate goal- revenge for what they believe to be the collective, retroactive debt owed to women for either actual or, perceived wrongs committed against them by men through the ages.
But, I’ve been put in this position and, I have two choices- fight a biased, corrupt DV and DR system against which a man has no chance and, end up destitute, in jail or, in the graveyard. Or, abandon my little girl and the abductor will not have the power to control me any longer but, lose my soul and, bear a punishment from my own heart for the rest of my life that anything this system could do to me could not compare to. Is it right that if a man separates from the mother of his children, he is given only these two choices. Any decent human being with an ounce of compassion can answer that; which is why I’ll continue to fight. When it comes to my daughter, I have no choice anyway, it’s my heart that controls me. I could no more stop loving her than I could stop breathing. I could no more keep her from my thoughts than I could keep food from my mouth. No one knows the future. And, what will eventually happen in my situation is up to the judge of all. But, I know one thing above all- there was no section on the “father application†that required me to be perfect to be her dad and, I have my flaws like everyone else but, through God‘s miraculous gift of compassion to me, I became her father and, I will love her and, I will be there for her and no one, neither the courts nor, her mother nor, anyone can ever change that.
J5alvr@aol.com John Alvarez
Well, isn’t this just wonderful?! However, all of the feminist groups’ rape and abuse father’s rights to be fathers to their own children. Things were going just fine fathers and mothers taking care and raising their children together, and then the mother is infected with the cancer known as the feminist movement and thinks that she can do it by herself provided that the male continues to supply the funds necessary. At this point the courts agree with the illogic presented her and all the feminist groups support this absurd path because a male is not needed beyond the donation of the sperm to create a child. However, somewhere in there a father becomes this magical notion that only existed in the mind of the child. When it’s all said and done, we have four classifications or genders:
1) females – women that never had a child
2) mothers – former women before they had children
3) males – sperm providers and deep pockets of endless cash
4) fathers – the husband of a mother of a child or children, or dad to the child or children, at separation automagically reverts to male; thus having status of father now granted by mothers
The problem with the child or children is that they won’t stop calling the father, father or dad, which infuriates the mother as she thought she could just get rid of him by separation or divorce.
Now, I have a solution, mothers should do it alone, without support of the male, if they can’t manage to do so, then they should hand over the child or children to the father whom will gladly raise the child or children WITHOUT any funds from the mother.
Wanito:
That was one of the best, I mean best letters I’ve ever read. I feel like making it a center piece for all men who are exposed to the corrupt courts.
Jim D.
That’s why I put it here on this website, and hand it out when I go out to protest in front of the courthouse or the capitol building in my city (Albuquerque) and my state (New Mexico). Send it or use it however you want Jim, as long as it helps fathers and men.
John Alvarez
j5alvr@aol.com
Wanita:
I’m deeply touched by your letter, but not in the way you may think. If your love for your daughter is as you say, there would be only one choice, “come out swingingâ€. The only blow that will faze your oppressor is a direct shot to the pocketbook.
However, judging from a post you made a short time ago it appears your “primary concern†is your own pocketbook.
1. wanito said,
on January 29th, 2006 at 9:18 pm
I want to support my child. If the amount I paid was proportional to my income, and if I had input into decisions concerning my child’s life and every penny that I paid in support was spent on items or services related to my child and accounted for, I would not have a problem paying.
The key phrase above is: “I want to support my childâ€, not, I want to be an equal participant in raising my daughter. It seems your primary concern is not “shared parentingâ€, or about people receiving the “equal protection†of our laws, it would seem your “primary concern†is how much you pay and how it is spent.
I see through your selfish bullshit; be a man and refuse to cooperate with this domestic enemy, or stop your whining.
You will never convince any of these criminals that what they are doing is wrong until you stop living on your knees. You claim these people are making you do all these demeaning things when in fact you are doing them to yourself. You claim you are the victim of false allegations and that your daughter has been kidnapped, yet you continue to pay the extortion. How does any self-respecting person do that? This can be described in one word … “cowardiceâ€.
The really sad part of all this is not what’s happening to you, after all, it’s happening to millions of men and their children. What’s sad is that because of …cowards like you … it will continue to happen to millions of other fathers and children, well into the future, until people like you grow a set of balls.
Kevin Merck
Who is this that’s responding? kevy boy, t(tiny)ball(s) or whatever computer you end up at next. I know it wasn’t what I posted here that got to you because I posted something directly to you on one of the other articles and you didn’t have jackshit to say. It was the response I got. What your afraid of is that you might start to lose your imagined “star” status for the audience that you love performing for. The thing is that, like I’ve said before, I don’t post here to get people to agree with me, or to discuss political issues, or to become a wannabe celebrity on the father’s rights circuit like you do. I post the truth here because maybe there’s some remote chance that it will help me in my case, and maybe, if possible, help some of the other fathers too. And, your the last selfish son of a bitch that has the right to question my love for my child. If it would help your own personal agenda, you would even sacrifice your own kids to achieve it (that is if you have kids at all) . I accomplished something concrete last week in my case by meeting with a state official. What the hell did you do? Probably sat around repeating “stop paying the extortion” and quoting Thomas Jefferson to anyone that was stupid enough to listen to you, while drool ran down the side of your mouth.
Why is it that you have to post from different computers anyway huh? I don’t need an answer for myself because I already know why, but why don’t you let the rest of the audience in on it . I don’t see any of the other guys posting with different names. Could it be that your on the run? Could it be that the guy that is always extolling the virtues of standing his ground when the tyrants come is running like a scared bitch because their after him because he didn’t pay his child support. I had you pegged months ago when I said “if your not paying, then your on the run because they don’t have computers in jail.” Why don’t you try and save the last vestiges of dignity, and from the looks of it, sanity that you have left, and stand up to the people that have driven you so crazy that you actually believe your a revolutionary war hero.
It’s a waste of time responding to someone that is obviously dillusional. But, instead of talking here anytime you want to step up to the plate, just tell me what state your in. We can meet at a halfway point so I can knock your teeth through the back of your head. This should be something that someone who’s always talking about putting the oppressors to death, should jump at the chance for. Thomas Jefferson would take me up on it. I know I’d enjoy the hell out of it.
John Alvarez
Albuquerque New Mexico
j5alvr@aol.com
Thanks Wanito, don’t mind if I do.
Kevin: What’s up with you?
Wanita:
[“I post the truth here because maybe there’s some remote chance that it will help me in my case,â€]
You really didn’t need to clear that up. I think it’s clear to any reasonable people who visit this website. You are only interested in what will benefit you, not what’s best for your daughter or the country. Your hateful outburst and threats of violence against me only show that in your case the courts have undoubtedly made the right decision to keep you away from children.
I didn’t realize you saw me as some kind of fathers’ rights celebrity, that’s obviously delusional thinking on your part.
As for the computer it’s not as complicated as your imagination would have it.
You have an uncanny ability to read all kinds of nonsensical garbage into whatever you read. You don’t seem to try and understand what a person is trying to say, you are only interested in “cherry picking†elements of what someone says and skewing them to your twisted perception.
If it’s such a waste of time to badger me on my comments then don’t do it.
Kevin Merck
I’ll be the Ref.
Wanito- Strike 1
Kevin- 0
Come on Troops,
THIS IS A MULIT-FRONT WAR!!!
Kevein is correct; the blood money we pay is what fuels the system that takes our kids. And one day, in solidarity, we will all stop paying. I agree a lot with Kev about not paying the extortion. The movie ‘Ransom” with Mel Gibson comes to mind. There has got to be a way to turn this back on them. Kevin has chosen this front in which to take a stand and I respect him for that. By the way things are going in my case I may have to be on the run also just to survive. They are taking my last nickle. But Kevin, please man, tone down the opinion just a bit. We’ve got to stick together on the war as a whole. You are, and will be, respected for your stance. I know deep down inside every guy wants to stop paying thru the system, and knows they should. But everyone’s curcumstances are different.
Wanito:
That was by far the best story I have ever read about a NCP’s plight. BRAVO, man, BRAVO! I copied it to my computer to edit for my situation and give to my kids when they get older so they will know what ole’ Pops had to go thru just to stay in contact with them.
Take care all and keep up the fight on your particular front and know re-enforcements are on the way.
We all have our crosses to bear. We all should fight and use the abilities that God gave us. Everybody is fighting on different fronts and some just don’t realize yet that the use of a more powerful arsenal might be needed. We all though eventually arrive at the same conclusion and should adjust accordingly. I want to do more but at this point my kid had enough trauma where I can cause him more harm than he needs right now, but he is noticing that I seem to have a good life and at least have him asking his mom when he can go home. For my son was kidnapped to Poland after a long brutal custody fight; I guess she couldn’t take the pressure of it all and decided to run. Just play it cool guys, yeah I too have not paid the ransom for my son in Poland; they asked for child support but I have court orders in the USA that says no child support and that’s where I am standing on. They have threatened jail for me in Poland but I still refused. I walked in that shit hole and man it does look like a bad trip to hell. All I got from the State Department when I told them I am not paying is “if they arrest you just tell us if you get abused†in other words if I get a pipe up my ass they might be able to ask them to stop. Talk about BS! If you don’t have the money to fight or if you married any of the State’s cult prostitutes I would advise you to cease the child support. If you are denied time with your child deny them the money they so desperately want. What else can they do to you after you have lost everything else? NEVER teach your children to marry where the contract is with 3 people; the husband, wife and the State! That’s where they got most of you; you got into a contract without you having full disclosure of what it meant to when you bought that license. They rolled this in such a way that it was almost impossible to know what you were getting into. The State even joined forces with the church to lead men to slaughter. You do not marry in a contract with God being the 3rd party and that’s where all fall; you married into it with the devil and the devil is the State in which you requested the license. Now all fall and worship the State once you divorce because they now can enter in and take all you have, your house, your cash, but what is more important your children! I say stop the craziness you men who have been divorce, refuse to marry again, I know of men that had all taken from them and they still jump back in the puddle where I have seen the best swimmers drown. Don’t remarry! Pussy is great but find a girl that will love you without the paper work.
Gerardo
Mycahsdad@aol.com
Man Jim, you don’t know how appropriate your question of “Kevin: what’s up with you” is. There’s something very serious going on in tinyballs head.
As is your tinyballs calling card, you take part of a statement and then base your whole response on it. As everyone can read, I included “help some of the other fathers too” as part of the reason why I post here. But, as everyone can see, you conveniently left that out.
Then, you talk about my “hateful outbursts and threats of violence” when 90% of the posts you put here are advocating putting people in the domestic relations system to death. Anyway, if you can read, it’s not a threat, but an offer.
And, I can’t believe that you are actually siding with the corrupt courts that you claim are the enemy, in their decision to take a child away from her father when you say “the courts have undoubtedly made the right decision to keep you away from children.” By you philisophically allying yourself with the courts and condoning their decisions, just to try and win your piddly little agument with me, shows that you come from the same slimepit they crawled out of (something I always knew anyway) I don’t care how much I hated another man, as long as there was no verified abuse, I would never side with the corrupt family courts in their decisions against him concerning his children. But, when your in this only to benefit and further your personal selfish goals, and could care less about other fathers, or even your own children, like you, it’s easy to side with even Satan himself or family court (same difference) if it conveniently serves your present need.
Like I said, any father’s rights celebrity status is “imagined” in your mind only. That’s obviously why you took it so personally when one of the other “legitimate” fathers made a positive comment about my post. But, you didn’t have a word to say when I directly addressed you on one of the other topics on this site.
And, as is another tinyballs calling card, you made your response about using different user names as ambiguous as possible, so for someone just reading quickly through, it seems like you answered the question, when you really didn’t. You are so astoundingly obtuse, a child would find you predictable.
John Alvarez
j5alvr@aol.com
Wyatt, thanks for the positive comment about my paper, I hope it offers some kind of help to you. I know it helped me somewhat to write it.
John Alvarez
j5alvr@aol.com
wanito said,
on January 29th, 2006 at 9:18 pm
“In the letter writing and picketing I suggested, to paraphrase a saying from Ghandi, ‘ a thousand US bureaucrats cannot tell millions of men and fathers what to do.’ Let the Senate, Congress, and Whitehouse post offices burst at the seams with the letters from men demanding change, and let the streets in the capitol be jammed with tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of men demanding change and change will come.â€
Wow! I can’t tell you how moved I am by this statement. Tell me Wanita, how one goes from quoting Gandhi to sounding worse than Charles Manson?
You’ve got some very serious issues my “poodle†friend. You lay down like a little puppy for the courts and talk real brave on your keyboard. You’re nothing short of pathetic.
Thank God the courts are smart enough to keep children away from you. By the statements you’ve made here you are clearly out of touch with reality. Fortunately all anyone has to do is read any past posts of mine to see what a pathetic liar you are.
Someone as “sick†as you should not be around children; much less enjoy custody. Thank God the courts can see it as well. Not everyone who is denied custody or visitation is a victim. You undoubtedly deserve your fate.
Kevin Merck
I hope the both of you got whatever out of your system now. I’m appalled and embarrassed that two grown men can’t reach some type of compromise. Arguments like these are the frightful little obstacles that “I” see when I take my eyes of the goal. The people on the other end of this whole issue are probably laughing their asses off (single-mothers-feminists etc.). If the sisters can stick together, I’m sure the brothers can do it too.
Don’t be so bull-headed guys, you do nothing but make fools of yourselves.
tinyballs:
The one thing that is apparent in all of these postings is, whatever I do or say is driven by my love and concern for my child. And, what you do or say is driven solely by your personal desire to take revenge on the either actual or imagined tormentors that have driven you mad. And, as examples of men driven mad by revenge like Captain Ahab prove, your trying to recruit as many as possible to follow you on your path to selfish, vengeful destruction.
My daughter is my # 1 priority right now. If gettting revenge against this system would assist in that priority, then I’m all for it. If it would not help that priority, but benefit me or other fathers alone, I’m against it, that simple. As a matter of fact, if the fathers rights movement jeapordized my being a father to my own child, I would fight it too. And, if you or anyone else don’t like that, kiss my ass.
My fate and present reality may have been thrust upon me by a corrupt system, and if it takes setting aside my pride or jumping through a few hoops for now to be able to see my daughter, then I’ll do it. But, if I keep fighting, maybe some day I will win. I won a battle last week and will start seeing my daughter next week because of that win. But, I guess the reason you never talk about your kids is because it’s to painful for you. Probably because the courts have seen the pitiful basketcase you are and taken them away from you for good. But, when you let selfish revenge take priority over anything or anyone in your life, even your own children, that’l happen.
It is not the system that has created the tormented fate and reality that you exist in, it is you. And, though I could care less about scum like you, if you continue on your present course, you will never win, because, it is not the domestic system that is your worst enemy, it is yourself.
John Alvarez
j5alvr@aol.com
Your probably right Jim, “he who argues with a fool, becomes one himself by the futility of the act.” It’s just that I have very deep convictions about what I beleive in and what I am trying to do, and, though I welcome intelligent debate, I don’t take well to someone blatantly attempting to sully my views or question my intent.
John Alvarez
j5alvr@aol.com
Good!!! Does that mean you’ll stop harassing me now you “sick fuckâ€.
For anyone interested in how this “sick fuck†got bent out of shape, just go back and read postings on “Man forced to pay child support” posted the 25th January. It should be obvious to anyone with an IQ over 80 that this idiot is not playing with a full deck.
I pray to God, literally, that you are kept away from not just your daughter, but all children. You are a sick fucking “mental case†who should not be allowed around children.
[“just tell me what state your in. We can meet at a halfway point so I can knock your teeth through the back of your head.â€]
This statement alone should be enough to convince any “sane†person that you are a “violent nutcaseâ€. I hope the courts in New Mexico see this. Hopefully it will be enough, in addition to all the other evidence against you, to keep your daughter away from you.
Sincerely,
Kevin Merck
The nut says I’m “harassing” him when he’s the one that instigated this by giving the disrespectful response that he did to my letter above. Did you think you were gonna take your cheap shot and get away with it. The bottom line is I don’t put up with crap from anyone. If your looking for a problem with me, I’ll oblige you.
And, as everyone can see, by his constantly using out of context, incomplete excerpts from my past postings, and the fact that he can’t move on from what this system has done to him, this guy lives in the past. Whatever I said applied to that past topic or issue. I’m talking to you here and now buddy.
I’ll be seeing my kid very soon thanks to God’s help and me doing something more than just offering lip-service. When was the last time you saw your kid(s) and when do you plan on seeing them in the future? In your tunnel-visioned hate, you could probably care less.
Oh, and since you mentioned God, thankfully, he, like everyone else, probably doesn’t listen to you either.
John Alvarez
j5alvr@aol.com
wanito said,
on January 29th, 2006 at 9:18 pm
“I want to support my child. If the amount I paid was proportional to my income, and if I had input into decisions concerning my child’s life and every penny that I paid in support was spent on items or services related to my child and accounted for, I would not have a problem paying.”
I think right there Wanito is where Kevin and you don’t see eye to eye. In that statement alone, your practically sleeping with the enemy.
Wanito:1
Kevin: 1
The simple fact of the matter is that “anyone†who cooperates with our unjust courts by paying the extortion guised as “child support†doesn’t deserve to see their children. These cowards, by paying the extortion, are denying millions of other fathers their right to be part of their children’s lives because they perpetuate this injustice by not having the courage to end it. Why should anyone who denies others their rights have any of their own?
I feel foolish for allowing this “degenerate coward†to draw me into this meaningless bickering. It won’t happen again. I just hope the courts see what kind of person he is and intervene before an innocent young girl pays with her life. By the way this coward talks he may be a real danger to himself and anyone around him when he eventually blows a gasket.
Kevin Merck
Let’s look who the real enemies are and let’s work together; I worked the courts with a good lawyer because I could afford it, I believe I would have establish case law for another dad if the fight had been continued. All was lost when the mother left the country. We can all do our part; the problem is for those fighting in court they must not stop at the circuit court. We need to take our cases to the Appeals Court. IF you stop at the circuit court nothing gets done and no case law will be established. That’s where we change the law and I believe you have a better chance if you don’t marry the woman. You should not have to pay any of her legal fees if you don’t marry the woman. I had my chance but the pressure was too much and she knew she was going to lose the case. The fight is over in the courts for me. Those that can’t fight in court maybe shouldn’t pay the child support or maybe they should take the child and run. I won’t pay mine but I am dealing with another animal; Europe is more screwed up than here in the USA. I thought we had it bad until I went over there. It’s a mother worshipping sociaty. I believe those religious icons have something to do with it. You know the ones with the mother and child. The Church is our enemy also! I know of one case where the Catholic Church is hiding the mother and the children from the father. You see you have more enemies than you think; why waste it fighting each other. Continue with the war; take no prisoners.
You talk a lot of shit tinyballs, but I know if we were face to face (like I offered) you wouldn’t say a goddamn word. And, if you want to make insinuations that I would harm my own child you’re lucky were not face to face, because if we were, “paying the extortion” or not would be the least of your worries. In front of all these men here I offered to meet you so we could settle this and all you could say is “he’s violent” and “making threats.” If your a man, take me up on it you little bitch coward instead of hiding behind a website. I would love to have 10 minutes in a ring with you to see what brave shit you would have to say after that. And like I said before. I’ll be seeing my kid soon. It’s pretty obvious that you don’t see yours. I hope the reason they took them away from you isn’t because you did some sick shit to them.
John Alvarez
j5alvr@aol.com
Jim, if you don’t want to pay child support be my guest. But have you ever truly questioned yourself why. Maybe your kid eats cause you pay support. Maybe your kid wears clothes cause you pay support. And, if you’ve stopped paying support, have you ever found out how doing so affected you child. If your not paying support just because it goes against your principles, or simply because it sticks in your craw to have to fork over money to your ex, that seems like pretty arbitrary reasoning considering were talking about your child.
Because of what I have been subjected to I consider the entire domestic relations system to be my adversary (including the child support system) But, I’m not gonna place my desire to be victorious in my adversarial engagement with this system, or the calls of other men to “stop paying the extortion” above my responsibility to provide for my child.
Her mom and I are divorced, and she’s with her mom, and with this corrupt system there’s not a whole lot I can do about that right now. But, my daughter still needs money to have the things she needs. And since, at this point, she is not physically in my care, then I like to know that I am helping to care for her the only way I can now.
I’m for 50/50 custody and shared parenting, but thats not reality now. And, I know what your gonna say – as long as you pay it will never become a reality. Well, I just don’t see not paying as the only way to achieve that goal. I simply disagree with you. This is what started the issue with tinyballs, I simply disagreed with him and he was unwilling to accept that. And, as well, I am not willing to back down from my views, and well, you know what happened from that point.
As I have posted before, there may come a time when I do decide to not pay. But, it will be a decision that considers all involved, not just me. Maybe who you see as the enemy, I see as just a another footsoldier I can cajole until I can inflict damage to the real power behind this system. Or, maybe, what you call sleeping with the enemy, I call biding my time.
John Alvarez
j5alvr@aol.com
Wanito: I understand, and I empathize with you. The one big thing you’ve got to understand is that there are multiple fronts to our cause. Some pay and some don’t. You cannot critique anyone for whatever their front is in this cause, nor should they do it to you. In the end it’s all for the same purpose. I used to pay almost 60% of my GROSS income to child support and I don’t any longer. I simply refused to pay. My daughter still eats, gets medical and so forth. The enemy in my case was her mother. One day I told her mother that if you don’t drop the support I will sign over my daughter to you because at my age I have to keep in check the three S’s. Sanity, Security and Self-preservation. Ultimately, my daughter and her mother had to deal with me literally giving her up between themselves. My daughters mother had to choose: The money or one pissed of daughter to be raise her mother only for the next 10 years because she will not see her dad. Guess what, for the INTEREST of my daughter her mother suprisingly didn’t take the money. We share now. I had to literally take one of the biggest gambles in my life at that time. Now her mom and I are very good friends, I have my self preservation, my sanity and my daughter. I didn’t win, she didn’t win, my daughter did. Stop arguing Wanito, you look like an ass talking about the ring and such. I don’t like the hate you’re bringing into this blog, just chill, people are different and that’s just life.
Peace.
And one more thing Wanito:
The anger your exhibited to Kevin here is just a prime example as to why things are the way they are, District Justice’s hand out PFA’s like candy, women file PFA’s just because it will cut the father out of the children’s lives in an instant. Don’t do it Wanito, your just giving more framework to the corrupt system and the usage of PFA’s. When I read your posts about kicking your fellow man’s ass I immediately think, “He’s one of those men” and “He’s the reason why” I get sterotyped in the eye’s of the law and Domestic abuse, think about it.
In my opinion, it is essential to confront those who financially support this tyranny in order to stop the injustice. This discrimination is primarily against men. If the discrimination were based on race, as it was with apartheid, we would applaud anyone who openly criticized financially supporting that. That is “in fact†the only way we were able to help in abolishing apartheid. Our constitution does not allow discrimination based on race, religion, or gender.
This is “gender discriminationâ€. We should, “and mustâ€, confront all those who support this discrimination at every level; either directly or indirectly. This is not a victimless crime our courts and government are engaged in. Millions of lives have been disrupted or destroyed and thousands pay with their lives every year. If you pay their extortion, you are guilty of helping perpetuate this human rights disaster.
Kevin Merck
That would have been my second option Kevin. Luckily, I had a bargaining table.
Jim, men like you, tinyballs, and probably many many others are so tunnel-visioned and obsessed with the single issue of child support, that for all intents and purposes, nothing else exists in your universe.
In your response, probably without realizing it, you made my argument for me. The paper that I wrote above that started all of this was me questioning myself as to why I was allowing myself to be put through what I was going through. And, if you payed attention, the final question I came to was “save myself” or “NEVER under ANY circumstances relinquish my child. I chose my child.
From your response, I gather that you also went through the same self questioning that I did. But, by your own admission, you chose “the three S’s” over your child. As you went on to say, things worked themselves out. But, what if they hadn’t. What if your wife would have taken you up on your offer to relinquish parental rights and would have hopped a plane with your child never to be seen from again?
See, I think it’s more the statements and actions of men like you and tinyballs that are more responsible for what fathers are having to go through in this system today than what I have said or done. If all of us in solidarity were to show the system and the courts that as fathers we can be as devoted to our children as mothers are perceived to be. And, wouldn’t be willing to sign them away or abandon them simply because the going got rough, then maybe this system would stop seeing fathers as secondary parents and start recognizing that we too feel unconditional love and dedication towards our children.
Though I’m sure you’ve gotten the worst of it in the separation or divorce from your ex (as I did) I’m sure it hasn’t been a walk in the park for her. I’m sure she’s gone through some trouble and rough times related to the divorce or separation. Why didn’t she give you the same offer that you gave her? Something to think about huh? See, Jim as long as the mother is perceived as the more loving, devoted, attached parent to the child, then we as fathers can blog, and protest, and “not pay the extortion” until doomsday and it’s not gonna make a damn bit of difference, and I’ll tell you why. Because, if, in actuality, the mother really is the more loving, devoted, attached parent to the child, then, it literally is in “the best interest of the child” to go with his/her mother, and the courts are going to decide in favor of “the best interest of the child” bottom line. Don’t you see the logic in that. When I argue with the ladies in my family concerning my daughter, they tell me “you could never love your daughter as much as her mother because you didn’t carry her inside you for 9 months.” I answer them by saying ” I may have not carried her inside my belly for 9 months, but I carried her inside my heart.” We must change this belief in peoples minds about a father’s lax devotion to his children, before we can change any laws recognizing his relationship to them. It’s men like you and tinyballs, placing paying support over seeing your children, that confirm this belief about all fathers that keep the courts deciding against men like me, who would sacrifice ANYTHING – sanity, security, or self-presevation – or PAY ANY PRICE, to be a father to my child.
And as for the anger you say I am bringing to this blog. It’s pretty obvious that you are siding with tinyballs in this issue because of the similarity of your views concening “the extortion.” Because only that would cause you to be so one-sided and not recognize that he has threatened violence many times, and is the one that began calling me foul names because I pay support to my daughter, saying that I would harm her, and the many other line-crossing things he has said in reference to me. I consider myself a fairly civil reasonable man. But, there are some things that I won’t stand for. And, one of those things is to take insults about issues that would be sensitive and emotionally-charged to any man, like my child, child-support, and other domestic issues, from some idiot spouting suedo-intellectual bullshit. And, concerning the threats you said I made, I simply offered him the opportunity for us to take up these issues in a more personalized manner.
And Jim, one more thing, if the anger and negativity of discussing these issues disturbs you, then maybe you should remove yourself from the fray. Because, like I stated before, when your dealing with issues that are as sensitive and emotionally charged to any man, as these issues are to me, then there’s going to be a whole lot more going on than just anger and negativity; it’s going to get pretty ugly.
John Alvarez
j5alvr@aol.com
Maybe we should change the headline to this post? It could be : Many fathers rights groups demeaning to each other? Better yet, I don’t recall the opressed African Americans in the 60′s beating the shit out of Rosa Parks on the bus.
Wanito, you’re a good man. Just stop trying to pick fights, that’s all.
Jim
Like I said before Jim, I’m not looking for a fight with you or anyone else either, but if someone is looking for one with me, I’ll oblige.
Mel gibson is a fine actor and director